|
Post by ArkCowboy on Jan 20, 2009 12:19:22 GMT -7
insane National Debt increase (16 Trillion?) can u count that high? unprecedented rise in unemployment/underemployment massive redistribution of wealth (rich got richer/fewer people have more of the wealth!) 2 very unpopular wars with no end in sight (seen any WMD's?) housing and financial crisis (watch the nightly news) Katrina (nuff said) political use of Judiciary (gonzo resign's) torture (rumsy resign's) civil rights infractions (patriot act and more)
anyone ready to admit they were wrong yet? 1.20.09 - THE END OF AN ERROR!!
|
|
|
Post by scorpion42 on Jan 21, 2009 10:37:18 GMT -7
Bush showed U.S. is no paper tiger Debra J. Saunders Sunday, January 18, 2009
From the day President Bush took office, the long knives were out for him - in ways they will not (and should not) be out for President-elect Barack Obama. The chattering class saw Dubya as a walking style crime in a cowboy suit. They hit Bush for everything - for the way he mangled syntax, for the books he read, because he worked out too much.
Note now that the buff Obama is taking office, stories gushing about Obama's daily workouts flood the channels. Oh, yes, and the same people who belittled Bush for sending troops to war even though he only served in the National Guard somehow do not seem to notice Obama's utter lack of military experience.
To trash Bush was to belong. There was little upside in supporting Bush, even if you had supported his agenda.
Most of the Democratic candidates for president in 2004 and 2008 voted for the Patriot Act - and then campaigned against it. They voted for the resolution authorizing U.S. military force in Iraq - then bolted from the war itself. Likewise with No Child Left Behind. Somehow Bush was the guy who looked bad as he withstood the heat, while his caving critics preened.
When the Dems were pushing for a humiliating retreat from Iraq and opinion polls supported troop withdrawal, Bush instead pushed for a troop surge that has made all the difference. Vice President-elect Joe Biden - who voted for the war before he was against it - visited Iraq last week. While there, he promised the Iraqis that America would not withdraw troops in a way that undermines Iraqi security. Yet that was exactly what his party advocated a year ago.
Does Bush get any credit? No, just as he has received little credit for efforts that have prolonged millions of lives, thanks to the President's Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief. Forget considerable goodwill in India and Africa. His good deeds, you see, don't fit with the prescribed story line that, with Bush in charge, the rest of the world hates us.
Yes, the man also stumbled, and others paid for his mistakes more dearly than he has.
Under Bush's watch, Osama bin Laden evaded capture.
Worse, Bush's slowness in changing strategies in Iraq suggested a presidency in a fetal position when Bush should have been managing the store and demanding results.
Weapons of mass destruction? The CIA believed Saddam Hussein had them. So did Hussein's lieutenants. I did, too. The conventional wisdom was wrong, but Bush can take comfort in the knowledge that without his efforts, Hussein almost certainly would have outlasted U.N. sanctions, armed himself to the hilt and wreaked unknown havoc in and beyond Iraq.
There is no comfort - there is no upside - to be had in the $810 billion Bush bailout. The Bush administration should have been on alert to contain the damage from the housing-price drop and mortgage foreclosures; instead, it allowed the credit crunch to reach a tipping point and roll over the U.S. economy. It was so avoidable. It was like the Katrina trailers all over again - except this preventable and unnatural disaster left toxic trailers strewn across America.
There's an out-to-lunch sloppiness to the whole mess. It feels as if the barrage of criticism made the Bush engine seize up and stop running the business of the nation.
America's first MBA president turned out to be a poor administrator, more interested in ideas than making the machinery work. He was good at fighting - and winning - ideological battles in Congress, but he never demonstrated a commitment to making his own administration deliver as promised. In putting loyalty at a premium, he overlooked incompetence.
How will history judge Bush?
Osama bin Laden once told Time magazine that the U.S. withdrawal from Somalia after the murder of 18 U.S. troops on a humanitarian mission made him realize "more than before that the American soldier was a paper tiger and after a few blows ran in defeat." Members of al Qaeda have told intelligence officials that they never thought that Washington would respond to the 9/11 attacks as ferociously as Bush responded. They expected a few bombs to be dropped, no boots on the ground, a swift withdrawal if casualties mounted - the usual short-attention span foreign policy that warped Lebanon, the Persian Gulf War, Somalia, the African embassy bombings and the attack on the destroyer Cole.
Bush showed America's enemies a country that does not retreat in fear, does not bomb with impunity, and most important, does not desert civilians or foreign governments that trust us. If you think that doesn't matter, look at Libya, which disarmed its weapons program. And see how much easier Obama's presidency will be, because Bush kept the faith.
Osama bin Laden may live, most likely quivering in a cave. But no one thinks America is a paper tiger anymore.
You can e-mail Debra J. Saunders at dsaunders@sfchronicle.com.
This article appeared on page G - 3 of the San Francisco Chronicle
|
|
|
Post by ArkCowboy on Jan 21, 2009 12:41:31 GMT -7
op/ed opinions aside, the facts speak for themselves
|
|
|
Post by heavyg on Jan 21, 2009 14:44:06 GMT -7
I say within 2 yrs we will have another major attack on our soil
|
|
|
Post by scorpion42 on Jan 21, 2009 16:20:06 GMT -7
op/ed opinions aside, the facts speak for themselves As a conservative, I could give you an honest opinion where George w. Bush went wrong. On the other hand, I can't stand it when moderate republicans do it. They sound like liberals when they criticize the former President. So why should I? From the article I posted earlier: Osama bin Laden once told Time magazine that the U.S. withdrawal from Somalia after the murder of 18 U.S. troops on a humanitarian mission made him realize "more than before that the American soldier was a paper tiger and after a few blows ran in defeat." Members of al Qaeda have told intelligence officials that they never thought that Washington would respond to the 9/11 attacks as ferociously as Bush responded. They expected a few bombs to be dropped, no boots on the ground, a swift withdrawal if casualties mounted - the usual short-attention span foreign policy that warped Lebanon, the Persian Gulf War, Somalia, the African embassy bombings and the attack on the destroyer Cole.Every once in a while, I may come on-line & offer my thoughts about President Clinton. Along with our new Secretary of State, Hillary Rotten. Whenever I chose to do it, I'm only throwing a few blocks of wood into the fire. Just to see how far a liberal will defend, "President 42." Have you ever seen the movie, "The Path to 9/11?" Most of what the film was about, happened under President Clinton's watch. Hell! You probably couldn't even find it in a video store. The movie has never been released on DVD. Let alone, shown on television again. Its my biggest beef, that I have against, "Slick Willie." Its not the Monica Lewinski crap. Slick Willie did that to himself. There's some liberals who wanted Bill Clinton impeached. They just won't say it, in public. In fear of the IRS, giving them a tax audit.
|
|
|
Post by ArkCowboy on Jan 21, 2009 18:54:23 GMT -7
how can 9/11 be put on brother bill when king shrub and cheney were the masterminds? my conspiracy theory is true and yours is not! **wink, wink**
|
|
|
Post by ArkCowboy on Jan 21, 2009 19:02:00 GMT -7
I say within 2 yrs we will have another major attack on our soil and?!?! your point is? you didn't really think we were never gonna have another did you? IMO we did not have one IN SPITE OF GWB not because of him if the loss of civil liberties and losing the moral high ground is the price of no more attacks then who is the winner? in the words of Ben Franklin, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
|
|
|
Post by heavyg on Jan 21, 2009 21:09:32 GMT -7
I say within 2 yrs we will have another major attack on our soil and?!?! your point is? you didn't really think we were never gonna have another did you? IMO we did not have one IN SPITE OF GWB not because of him if the loss of civil liberties and losing the moral high ground is the price of no more attacks then who is the winner? in the words of Ben Franklin, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Exactly what liberties have YOU given up? I don't think you have been red flagged as a terrorist so I doubt your phone conversations and emails are being monitored. So what has been given up by the everyday law abiding citizen?
|
|
|
Post by ArkCowboy on Jan 21, 2009 21:54:40 GMT -7
the point is that under the veil of secrecy being used (no warrents, no accountability, et all) none of us really know how far the intrusion into our privacy on an individual level the loss's actually extend. further, if ANY citizen loses civil liberties, it might as well be all of us. in the famous arguement of the gun rights crowd, "if they start there, how far will they go?" lastly, what if it was your brother or father being held without trial or hope of trail on the sayso of a so called "terror-expert"?
|
|
|
Post by heavyg on Jan 22, 2009 6:00:02 GMT -7
Can you cite one American CITIZEN that is being held without trial or hope of a trial? The only issue I know of is gitmo (sp) and those are know terrorist captured during this war. At least we are not beheading them like they would our soldiers
|
|
|
Post by ArkCowboy on Jan 22, 2009 10:24:26 GMT -7
and those are know terrorist with no chance to defend themselves you can not say this with ANY certainty whatsoever point of fact, they are whatever THEY WERE LABELED whether it was true are not, you can blindly trust the governement, i choose not to but would rather defer to the RIGHTS that are given even to non citizens in America!!
|
|
|
Post by heavyg on Jan 22, 2009 12:03:31 GMT -7
and those are know terrorist with no chance to defend themselves you can not say this with ANY certainty whatsoever point of fact, they are whatever THEY WERE LABELED whether it was true are not, you can blindly trust the governement, i choose not to but would rather defer to the RIGHTS that are given even to non citizens in America!! Are you really willing to risk your life and the life of your families based on that idea? Do you honestly believe the prisoners in Gitmo are Innocent? I hope this board is around in a year or so. When our shores are attacked again we can continue this discussion. Right now we have our foot on the terrorist necks keeping them at bay. Just as soon as we let up and show weakness they will attack again. I will be honest and say that I do not think we can EVER do way with terrorism. The best we can hope for is to keep them off our land.
|
|
|
Post by scorpion42 on Jan 22, 2009 13:05:15 GMT -7
how can 9/11 be put on brother bill when king shrub and cheney were the masterminds? my conspiracy theory is true and yours is not! **wink, wink** Admit it, you never watched the movie. The terrorists were the stars of that movie. It wasn't your fav President, "Slick Willie." You sound like that left wing nut job, Rosie O' Donnell. Sean Hannity once invited her on his radio show, & Rosie was a no show. Let me see, if I can find the Popular Mechanix article, that was written about your so called, "conspiracy theory."
|
|
|
Post by scorpion42 on Jan 22, 2009 13:09:43 GMT -7
and those are know terrorist with no chance to defend themselves you can not say this with ANY certainty whatsoever point of fact, they are whatever THEY WERE LABELED whether it was true are not, you can blindly trust the governement, i choose not to but would rather defer to the RIGHTS that are given even to non citizens in America!! When did they become citizens of the United States of America? Furthermore, "Club Gitmo" is in Cuba.
|
|
|
Post by scorpion42 on Jan 22, 2009 13:23:52 GMT -7
how can 9/11 be put on brother bill when king shrub and cheney were the masterminds? my conspiracy theory is true and yours is not! **wink, wink** You sound like that left wing nut job, Rosie O' Donnell. Sean Hannity once invited her on his radio show, & Rosie was a no show. Let me see, if I can find the Popular Mechanix article, that was written about your so called, "conspiracy theory." When in doubt, google it: www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html
|
|